<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: More on Death in Games</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:29:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/comment-page-1#comment-1487</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games#comment-1487</guid>
		<description>Pardon me for leaving a comment on my own (rather old) post, but I wanted to make note of this in case I need to refer back to it later. Here&#039;s a quote from a recent &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=154462&amp;page=3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;review&lt;/a&gt; of &lt;i&gt;Alone in the Dark&lt;/i&gt; which pretty well sums up the problem of death and narrative engagement in games:
&lt;blockquote&gt;By the time you&#039;ve watched the same bus fall off the same ledge rising at the same angle for the umpteenth time, any suspension of disbelief has long since snapped like overstretched elastic under a flame.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I also thought it was interesting that the reviewers note that the game actually kind of works better when it&#039;s working linearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon me for leaving a comment on my own (rather old) post, but I wanted to make note of this in case I need to refer back to it later. Here&#8217;s a quote from a recent <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=154462&#038;page=3" rel="nofollow">review</a> of <i>Alone in the Dark</i> which pretty well sums up the problem of death and narrative engagement in games:</p>
<blockquote><p>By the time you&#8217;ve watched the same bus fall off the same ledge rising at the same angle for the umpteenth time, any suspension of disbelief has long since snapped like overstretched elastic under a flame.</p></blockquote>
<p>I also thought it was interesting that the reviewers note that the game actually kind of works better when it&#8217;s working linearly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/comment-page-1#comment-958</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games#comment-958</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re on target in suggesting that the supporting characters come across as more likable when they&#039;re helpful, rather than a hindrance. I think a real sense of tragedy and loss from death in games currently comes in two flavors:

1. When your character is going to die or be struck down and there&#039;s nothing you can do about it, but the game forces you to play anyway (e.g., &lt;i&gt;King Kong&lt;/i&gt;, beginning of &lt;i&gt;God of War II&lt;/i&gt;, other games I don&#039;t want to ruin).

2. When one of the supporting characters &lt;i&gt;who has been helpful to you&lt;/i&gt;, and who you had time to get to know, dies permanently and there&#039;s nothing you can do about it (e.g., Aeris in FFVII, other games I don&#039;t want to ruin).

Playing through &lt;i&gt;Gears of War&lt;/i&gt; on &quot;Insane&quot; mode with you (Jordan) the other night, I got to thinking that the scene early on where your commanding officers gets killed looks like it&#039;s supposed to be very emotional—slow motion, close-up reaction shot with the protagonist, etc.—but I don&#039;t really care about the guy. What would have made that scene really hit home is if he had been the only member of the squad, besides Dom, reviving you when you get shot to your knees. Then, when he&#039;s gone, that loss is reinforced in both the story and the gameplay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re on target in suggesting that the supporting characters come across as more likable when they&#8217;re helpful, rather than a hindrance. I think a real sense of tragedy and loss from death in games currently comes in two flavors:</p>
<p>1. When your character is going to die or be struck down and there&#8217;s nothing you can do about it, but the game forces you to play anyway (e.g., <i>King Kong</i>, beginning of <i>God of War II</i>, other games I don&#8217;t want to ruin).</p>
<p>2. When one of the supporting characters <i>who has been helpful to you</i>, and who you had time to get to know, dies permanently and there&#8217;s nothing you can do about it (e.g., Aeris in FFVII, other games I don&#8217;t want to ruin).</p>
<p>Playing through <i>Gears of War</i> on &#8220;Insane&#8221; mode with you (Jordan) the other night, I got to thinking that the scene early on where your commanding officers gets killed looks like it&#8217;s supposed to be very emotional—slow motion, close-up reaction shot with the protagonist, etc.—but I don&#8217;t really care about the guy. What would have made that scene really hit home is if he had been the only member of the squad, besides Dom, reviving you when you get shot to your knees. Then, when he&#8217;s gone, that loss is reinforced in both the story and the gameplay.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/comment-page-1#comment-948</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 18:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games#comment-948</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the interesting links Jason!  I have a few responses....

Escort missions:  I think the general idea of escort missions is sound, but it just doesn&#039;t work with current AI.  I&#039;d like to see more of it in multiplayer gaming.  Some of the really fun parts of multiplayer strategy games are where you have to &quot;cover&quot; someone while they carry out some important task that leaves them vulnerable.  You can see this is FPSs and real time strategy games.  That being said, I would suggest Guild Wars as an example of a game where the AI-based escort missions are actually well done (i.e., not frustrating), and that might be because you have a group of players protecting the NPCs, rather than a single player like in the examples that consistently come up.  Also, the GW AIs that you escort usually have some assistive role.

Passage:  This was really cool.  It relates to your &quot;escort missions&quot; topic too, because the maze is easier to navigate if you don&#039;t pick up the girl, but you could argue that the game is more &quot;rewarding&quot; if you have a companion.  Also, in case you didn&#039;t see it, the author made a &lt;a href=&quot;http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/statement.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;statement&lt;/a&gt; about the game.

Sweet Release of Death:  As I know them, FPS games have very little penalty for death.  In some cases death actually gives you a chance to &quot;restock&quot; on ammo or other resources.  It&#039;s not uncommon for people playing TF2 to die intentionally so that they can change classes, or get more ammo, or leave metal for their teammates to use, etc.  This is in contrast to something like a MUD or MMORPG or adventure game, where there seems to be more &quot;repeated&quot; work when you die.  Also, I skimmed the article &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; quickly and didn&#039;t see whether they compared the subject responses to a case where they kill/wound AI characters, to tease out whether knowing there is a person on the other side has an influence (for example, maybe you feel more stressed about potential retaliation when you know you&#039;re attacking a human controlled character).

Contemplating the Death Penalty: I can really only attest to Guild Wars as an example, but I definitely felt that death broke the narrative flow in that game.  This was mainly because death during a mission often meant that you&#039;d have to repeat significant chunks of the narrative again.  Imagine if you were watching a movie and every so often you were forced to watch the same 5 minute scene over and over.  It&#039;s like that.  There is a mechanism for skipping those cuts in Guild Wars, but everyone in your group has to agree to skip it for it to work.  That being said, the majority of players I&#039;ve played with tend to want to skip narrative scenes, presumably because they&#039;d already beaten the game and seen it all.

Ok.  long comment.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the interesting links Jason!  I have a few responses&#8230;.</p>
<p>Escort missions:  I think the general idea of escort missions is sound, but it just doesn&#8217;t work with current AI.  I&#8217;d like to see more of it in multiplayer gaming.  Some of the really fun parts of multiplayer strategy games are where you have to &#8220;cover&#8221; someone while they carry out some important task that leaves them vulnerable.  You can see this is FPSs and real time strategy games.  That being said, I would suggest Guild Wars as an example of a game where the AI-based escort missions are actually well done (i.e., not frustrating), and that might be because you have a group of players protecting the NPCs, rather than a single player like in the examples that consistently come up.  Also, the GW AIs that you escort usually have some assistive role.</p>
<p>Passage:  This was really cool.  It relates to your &#8220;escort missions&#8221; topic too, because the maze is easier to navigate if you don&#8217;t pick up the girl, but you could argue that the game is more &#8220;rewarding&#8221; if you have a companion.  Also, in case you didn&#8217;t see it, the author made a <a href="http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/statement.html" rel="nofollow">statement</a> about the game.</p>
<p>Sweet Release of Death:  As I know them, FPS games have very little penalty for death.  In some cases death actually gives you a chance to &#8220;restock&#8221; on ammo or other resources.  It&#8217;s not uncommon for people playing TF2 to die intentionally so that they can change classes, or get more ammo, or leave metal for their teammates to use, etc.  This is in contrast to something like a MUD or MMORPG or adventure game, where there seems to be more &#8220;repeated&#8221; work when you die.  Also, I skimmed the article <i>very</i> quickly and didn&#8217;t see whether they compared the subject responses to a case where they kill/wound AI characters, to tease out whether knowing there is a person on the other side has an influence (for example, maybe you feel more stressed about potential retaliation when you know you&#8217;re attacking a human controlled character).</p>
<p>Contemplating the Death Penalty: I can really only attest to Guild Wars as an example, but I definitely felt that death broke the narrative flow in that game.  This was mainly because death during a mission often meant that you&#8217;d have to repeat significant chunks of the narrative again.  Imagine if you were watching a movie and every so often you were forced to watch the same 5 minute scene over and over.  It&#8217;s like that.  There is a mechanism for skipping those cuts in Guild Wars, but everyone in your group has to agree to skip it for it to work.  That being said, the majority of players I&#8217;ve played with tend to want to skip narrative scenes, presumably because they&#8217;d already beaten the game and seen it all.</p>
<p>Ok.  long comment.  :-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/comment-page-1#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games#comment-936</guid>
		<description>My friend Keith likes to team-kill me and then teabag me, especially when we are playing in the same room together. You guys would get along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My friend Keith likes to team-kill me and then teabag me, especially when we are playing in the same room together. You guys would get along.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games/comment-page-1#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/03/more-on-death-in-games#comment-934</guid>
		<description>Suicide bombing in Halo III is in my list of favorite things to do to get other players mad. Also included: dancing on people after I&#039;ve defeated them and betraying teammates with lasers. 

I&#039;d be interested in an article on that, actually. People who relentlessly go after their own teammates. I could be the case study, cause I do that all the time.

After saying this, I fear Jason will no longer want to play me in halo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suicide bombing in Halo III is in my list of favorite things to do to get other players mad. Also included: dancing on people after I&#8217;ve defeated them and betraying teammates with lasers. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested in an article on that, actually. People who relentlessly go after their own teammates. I could be the case study, cause I do that all the time.</p>
<p>After saying this, I fear Jason will no longer want to play me in halo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
