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	<title>Comments on: Links: Thoughts on the New Nerd Order</title>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/05/links-thoughts-on-the-new-nerd-order/comment-page-1#comment-2409</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 06:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=283#comment-2409</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the bulk of this article.

Lets start by defining a nerd.  The dictionary claims that a nerd is &quot;a boring or unpopular person, esp one obsessed with something specified.&quot; Although this may be the technical definition, pop culture seems to define a nerd VERY differently.  Would pop culture label someone with a specified &quot;obsession&quot; for sports a nerd?  Definitely not; they would be labeled a jock or something along those lines.  Don&#039;t most people have a specified obsession with their career, or at least those that aspire to be successful in their career?  As for nerds being &quot;boring or unpopular,&quot;  this is simply subjective.  One nerd may be very interesting/popular among other nerds.  But to the average joe that could care less about philosophy (or whatever nerds discuss), this subject may seem very boring.  Pop culture (essentially) defines a nerd as someone that is highly intelligent and devoted to their studies.  Someone that will be in the library not because they have to study, but because they enjoy reading.  

Now the claim that &quot;nerds are going to inherit the world&quot; is slightly off.  Not because nerds won&#039;t inherit the world, but because they already have.  Do you think that most influential CEO&#039;s, political leaders, philosophers, scientists, inventors, ivy league school grads, etc. were the cool kids in high school?  These people had devoted their lives to their &quot;specified obsession&quot;, which is why they were able to achieve amazing things.  They spent a large portion of their childhood in libraries reading and studying the things that interest them.  This is also why it is &quot;unnecessary to speculate which political candidate is the nerd of the bunch,&quot; because it&#039;s obvious they&#039;re all, and have always been, nerds.  

Now onto the subject of nerds in relation to hipsters.  There are 3 groups: pure nerd, pure hipster, nerd/hipster mixture.  These 3 groups have existed since man developed the ability to think (but I&#039;ll get into that later).  Hipsters have a specified interest regarding art and culture.  A hipster will study one or more of the following: visual art, music, creative writing, fashion, etc.  Now just because hipsters have an interest in culture does not disqualify them from being nerds (vice versa), because hipsterism is essential a counterculture.  They reject pop culture and favor personal style.  Nerds also reject pop culture, but do not reject counterculture.  A lot of people tend to think hipsterism is something new, but they have been around as long as nerds.  All of the greatest and most innovative writers/musicians/artists were hipsters.  Just as all of the greatest and most innovative scientific thinkers were nerds.


Although art and science influence each other, these are the essential definitions of nerd and hipster.

The &quot;Nerd&quot;: Intelligent, creative, scientific thinker within a society.

The &quot;Hipster&quot;: Artistic thinker within a society.

The &quot;Hip Nerd&quot;:  Both scientific and artistic thinker within a society. 
(Although this is different from a nerd with an appreciation for the arts or a hipster with an appreciation for science)

Personally, I have been called a nerd, hipster and everything in between. Also, these are the types of people I have an inclination to associate myself with so I think that gave me a better understanding of how these two groups are labeled and the similarities they share.  I almost feel like I could write a book on the subject just because I&#039;m so familiar with these two groups   Nonetheless, great article, it really got me thinking then my tendency to apply deductive reasoning to every situation took over.  I randomly stumbled across this article and figured I&#039;d throw a few of my thoughts out there to you guys even though it&#039;s a few years old.  element05@comcast.net - shoot me an email if you have any thoughts or debates on this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the bulk of this article.</p>
<p>Lets start by defining a nerd.  The dictionary claims that a nerd is &#8220;a boring or unpopular person, esp one obsessed with something specified.&#8221; Although this may be the technical definition, pop culture seems to define a nerd VERY differently.  Would pop culture label someone with a specified &#8220;obsession&#8221; for sports a nerd?  Definitely not; they would be labeled a jock or something along those lines.  Don&#8217;t most people have a specified obsession with their career, or at least those that aspire to be successful in their career?  As for nerds being &#8220;boring or unpopular,&#8221;  this is simply subjective.  One nerd may be very interesting/popular among other nerds.  But to the average joe that could care less about philosophy (or whatever nerds discuss), this subject may seem very boring.  Pop culture (essentially) defines a nerd as someone that is highly intelligent and devoted to their studies.  Someone that will be in the library not because they have to study, but because they enjoy reading.  </p>
<p>Now the claim that &#8220;nerds are going to inherit the world&#8221; is slightly off.  Not because nerds won&#8217;t inherit the world, but because they already have.  Do you think that most influential CEO&#8217;s, political leaders, philosophers, scientists, inventors, ivy league school grads, etc. were the cool kids in high school?  These people had devoted their lives to their &#8220;specified obsession&#8221;, which is why they were able to achieve amazing things.  They spent a large portion of their childhood in libraries reading and studying the things that interest them.  This is also why it is &#8220;unnecessary to speculate which political candidate is the nerd of the bunch,&#8221; because it&#8217;s obvious they&#8217;re all, and have always been, nerds.  </p>
<p>Now onto the subject of nerds in relation to hipsters.  There are 3 groups: pure nerd, pure hipster, nerd/hipster mixture.  These 3 groups have existed since man developed the ability to think (but I&#8217;ll get into that later).  Hipsters have a specified interest regarding art and culture.  A hipster will study one or more of the following: visual art, music, creative writing, fashion, etc.  Now just because hipsters have an interest in culture does not disqualify them from being nerds (vice versa), because hipsterism is essential a counterculture.  They reject pop culture and favor personal style.  Nerds also reject pop culture, but do not reject counterculture.  A lot of people tend to think hipsterism is something new, but they have been around as long as nerds.  All of the greatest and most innovative writers/musicians/artists were hipsters.  Just as all of the greatest and most innovative scientific thinkers were nerds.</p>
<p>Although art and science influence each other, these are the essential definitions of nerd and hipster.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Nerd&#8221;: Intelligent, creative, scientific thinker within a society.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Hipster&#8221;: Artistic thinker within a society.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Hip Nerd&#8221;:  Both scientific and artistic thinker within a society.<br />
(Although this is different from a nerd with an appreciation for the arts or a hipster with an appreciation for science)</p>
<p>Personally, I have been called a nerd, hipster and everything in between. Also, these are the types of people I have an inclination to associate myself with so I think that gave me a better understanding of how these two groups are labeled and the similarities they share.  I almost feel like I could write a book on the subject just because I&#8217;m so familiar with these two groups   Nonetheless, great article, it really got me thinking then my tendency to apply deductive reasoning to every situation took over.  I randomly stumbled across this article and figured I&#8217;d throw a few of my thoughts out there to you guys even though it&#8217;s a few years old.  <a href="mailto:element05@comcast.net">element05@comcast.net</a> &#8211; shoot me an email if you have any thoughts or debates on this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/05/links-thoughts-on-the-new-nerd-order/comment-page-1#comment-1433</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=283#comment-1433</guid>
		<description>This makes some sense. And actually, what you&#039;re describing in your first point is common to a lot of youth subcultures, a process described pretty well in Sarah Thornton&#039;s book &lt;i&gt;Club Cultures&lt;/i&gt;. What you&#039;re calling &quot;scoring points among friends,&quot; she calls (borrowing from Bourdieu) &quot;subcultural capital.&quot; I do think that there&#039;s substantial policing of boundaries and checking for &quot;geek cred&quot; (if that&#039;s what you might call our form of subcultural capital) even among geeks, though. Some geeky groups may be pretty desperate for new members and especially for women, though others are fierce meritocracies...

The suggestion that a lot of hipsters are former nerds is an interesting one. The biggest gap in my own research is what happens to the kids who were nerds but grow up to be &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; nerds. We know from previous research that some kids do escape geekdom in high school by finding their way into other, less stigmatized and sometimes more openly resistive groups. I&#039;d be curious to hear from folks who went this route and what they think about the concept of &#039;geeks&#039; now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This makes some sense. And actually, what you&#8217;re describing in your first point is common to a lot of youth subcultures, a process described pretty well in Sarah Thornton&#8217;s book <i>Club Cultures</i>. What you&#8217;re calling &#8220;scoring points among friends,&#8221; she calls (borrowing from Bourdieu) &#8220;subcultural capital.&#8221; I do think that there&#8217;s substantial policing of boundaries and checking for &#8220;geek cred&#8221; (if that&#8217;s what you might call our form of subcultural capital) even among geeks, though. Some geeky groups may be pretty desperate for new members and especially for women, though others are fierce meritocracies&#8230;</p>
<p>The suggestion that a lot of hipsters are former nerds is an interesting one. The biggest gap in my own research is what happens to the kids who were nerds but grow up to be <i>not</i> nerds. We know from previous research that some kids do escape geekdom in high school by finding their way into other, less stigmatized and sometimes more openly resistive groups. I&#8217;d be curious to hear from folks who went this route and what they think about the concept of &#8216;geeks&#8217; now.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/05/links-thoughts-on-the-new-nerd-order/comment-page-1#comment-1416</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 22:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=283#comment-1416</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a demi-nerd-cum-demi-hipster who lives a few stops on the train down from Williamsburg itself, so I had to comment.

I think there&#039;s a lot more to it than simple fetishization. First of all, the norms of nerddom and the norms of hipsterdom are more similar than one might think. To be a good hipster, one must make an effort to maximize attention on information that is, by default, outside the main stream. The only difference with nerds in this respect is that nerds are (generally) more inclusive; that is to say, a blonde girl in an American Eagle dress would receive a far warmer welcome at, e.g., DragonCon, than she would at, e.g., Studio B (to name a particularly egregiously hip Williamsburg club). This attitudinal difference aside, the hierarchical, taxonomical arrangements are very similar. The way kids &#039;score points&#039; with their friends talking about the latest developments in comic books, technology, or videogames, is almost identical to the way hipsters judge each other when discussing the latest underground bands.
Which leads me to my second point: I think a fair amount of hipsters &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; nerds when they were younger. In some sense, the much of the Williamsburg scene is similar to the SCA, in the way that like-minded individuals who are unfit (in the Darwinian sense) in the macroculture claim a space for themselves and essentially refashion society in their own image. There are a lot of people I&#039;ve met in Brooklyn who used to, and some who still do, play Magic cards or D&amp;D, and the hipster homes I&#039;ve seen without a Wii and/or PS3/XBox are few and far between.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a demi-nerd-cum-demi-hipster who lives a few stops on the train down from Williamsburg itself, so I had to comment.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot more to it than simple fetishization. First of all, the norms of nerddom and the norms of hipsterdom are more similar than one might think. To be a good hipster, one must make an effort to maximize attention on information that is, by default, outside the main stream. The only difference with nerds in this respect is that nerds are (generally) more inclusive; that is to say, a blonde girl in an American Eagle dress would receive a far warmer welcome at, e.g., DragonCon, than she would at, e.g., Studio B (to name a particularly egregiously hip Williamsburg club). This attitudinal difference aside, the hierarchical, taxonomical arrangements are very similar. The way kids &#8216;score points&#8217; with their friends talking about the latest developments in comic books, technology, or videogames, is almost identical to the way hipsters judge each other when discussing the latest underground bands.<br />
Which leads me to my second point: I think a fair amount of hipsters <i>were</i> nerds when they were younger. In some sense, the much of the Williamsburg scene is similar to the SCA, in the way that like-minded individuals who are unfit (in the Darwinian sense) in the macroculture claim a space for themselves and essentially refashion society in their own image. There are a lot of people I&#8217;ve met in Brooklyn who used to, and some who still do, play Magic cards or D&amp;D, and the hipster homes I&#8217;ve seen without a Wii and/or PS3/XBox are few and far between.</p>
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