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	<title>Comments on: Geeks vs. Jocks</title>
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	<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks</link>
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		<title>By: Geek Studies &#187; Sexism, Misogyny &#38; Misandry in Geek Cultures</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies &#187; Sexism, Misogyny &#38; Misandry in Geek Cultures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ll stand by the opinion that some male geeks bully women &#8211; and, I&#8217;ll add, each other &#8211; as a reaction to their own feelings of powerlessness and rejection. Much of the oppression geeks have felt is very real, in the form of cruel taunting, exclusion, and, sometimes, physical violence, with most harassment coming from members of their own gender. I think we see especially frequent and hateful geek misogyny online not because women cruelly refused to date male nerds, but because possessing women is the yardstick for dominance among men, and some geeks are still bitter about their treatment at the hands of jocks. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ll stand by the opinion that some male geeks bully women &ndash; and, I&#8217;ll add, each other &ndash; as a reaction to their own feelings of powerlessness and rejection. Much of the oppression geeks have felt is very real, in the form of cruel taunting, exclusion, and, sometimes, physical violence, with most harassment coming from members of their own gender. I think we see especially frequent and hateful geek misogyny online not because women cruelly refused to date male nerds, but because possessing women is the yardstick for dominance among men, and some geeks are still bitter about their treatment at the hands of jocks. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ddoodm</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2202</link>
		<dc:creator>Ddoodm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2202</guid>
		<description>What cause jock to be the bully? Why does jocks pick on the smart? In the end if you are an geek or a nerd you end up being a winner</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What cause jock to be the bully? Why does jocks pick on the smart? In the end if you are an geek or a nerd you end up being a winner</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2144</guid>
		<description>Good catch, Anonymous. It&#039;s interesting, I think, that over the last several years, movie heroes designed for &quot;nerd gratification&quot; have gotten even more overtly nerdy. In the late ’90s, the hero of &lt;i&gt;The Matrix&lt;/i&gt; was a shut-in hacker, but still tall, dark, and handsome Keanu Reeves. Fast-forward a few years, and you start seeing more &quot;underdog cutie&quot; than &quot;badass hottie&quot; geeks—sort of &quot;Peter Parker&quot; style nerds, who get treated like genuine losers by the jock-type characters, as in &lt;i&gt;Transformers&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Wanted&lt;/i&gt;.  It is, as I think you&#039;re implying, probably a reflection of who Hollywood increasingly thinks it needs to pander to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good catch, Anonymous. It&#8217;s interesting, I think, that over the last several years, movie heroes designed for &#8220;nerd gratification&#8221; have gotten even more overtly nerdy. In the late ’90s, the hero of <i>The Matrix</i> was a shut-in hacker, but still tall, dark, and handsome Keanu Reeves. Fast-forward a few years, and you start seeing more &#8220;underdog cutie&#8221; than &#8220;badass hottie&#8221; geeks—sort of &#8220;Peter Parker&#8221; style nerds, who get treated like genuine losers by the jock-type characters, as in <i>Transformers</i> and <i>Wanted</i>.  It is, as I think you&#8217;re implying, probably a reflection of who Hollywood increasingly thinks it needs to pander to.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2140</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 03:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2140</guid>
		<description>just stumbled upon this fascinating blog &amp; post.  i just feel compelled to mention that this reminded me of the transformers movie from &#039;07, when sam witwicky pokes fun at mikaela&#039;s jock boyfriend&#039;s lack of intelligence, leading her to say something along the lines of &quot;i don&#039;t know why i always get attracted by guys with big arms...&quot; being a geek myself i remember enjoying that scene which i now see is blatant nerd gratification.

unfortunately in transformers &#039;09 they just devoted half the action to megan fox running so all the teen guys could see her cleavage bounce up and down (although being female i didn&#039;t notice this until a male friend pointed it out).  plus, i hate movies where they write gibberish on the blackboard that supposedly solves some mystery of the universe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just stumbled upon this fascinating blog &amp; post.  i just feel compelled to mention that this reminded me of the transformers movie from &#8217;07, when sam witwicky pokes fun at mikaela&#8217;s jock boyfriend&#8217;s lack of intelligence, leading her to say something along the lines of &#8220;i don&#8217;t know why i always get attracted by guys with big arms&#8230;&#8221; being a geek myself i remember enjoying that scene which i now see is blatant nerd gratification.</p>
<p>unfortunately in transformers &#8217;09 they just devoted half the action to megan fox running so all the teen guys could see her cleavage bounce up and down (although being female i didn&#8217;t notice this until a male friend pointed it out).  plus, i hate movies where they write gibberish on the blackboard that supposedly solves some mystery of the universe</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2028</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2028</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment. I wish we were in a classroom (I teach sometimes!) so we could have a whole discussion about this, but I&#039;ll try my best to answer your question.

Why do students treat each other in such a terrible manner? The short answer, I think, is that high school is a really messed up social atmosphere. The students don&#039;t really have control over their environment, and so create a status system where at least some get to feel powerful. Being mean to some students can actually help some other students to maintain their popularity, and to avoid getting shut out socially themselves. The jocks and preps don&#039;t even necessarily hate the people they pick on, either. It&#039;s like they&#039;re playing their own game with each other, with the other students as props, trying to avoid losing status. 

I think there was a lot going on at Columbine, not just revenge against the &quot;cool kids&quot;—but I also know that those guys acted out a fantasy that was shared by victims of peer harassment around the country. In the long run,  though, I think the way victims develop a hatred for jocks isn&#039;t really helping us. It&#039;s bad enough that &quot;the cool kids&quot; use other students like props in some big game, but what does it do to us if we do the same, or worse? I&#039;ve seen people who&#039;ve become so bitter about the way they&#039;ve been treated that they don&#039;t trust men at all, and that they treat women like props or prizes themselves. (Notice that in the examples from the blog post above, a lot of times that geeks lash out at jocks, it&#039;s actually the jocks&#039; girlfriends who end up getting described as beaten, killed, or won like trophies.) After a while, carrying around all that resentment can give us a messed up sense of what other people are like, and can sometimes make it hard to interact with anybody at all.

I hope I can reassure you a little bit, at least, that things do get better afterward, and that the people who are being so hateful to you now are just people too. College and workplaces just aren&#039;t like high school, and even the people who used to pick on me turned out to be decent folks when they finally got out into the world. One former jock who used to push my friends around and call us &quot;faggots,&quot; for instance, stopped me years later on my college campus just to check in, say hello, and compliment me on the comic I drew the for the school paper. (It was kind of nutty, but nice.) I&#039;m glad he had a chance to turn out to be a pretty decent guy after all. 

Not every former jock turned out to be a nice guy, of course, but by the time we get out of school, it doesn&#039;t matter anymore. In the meantime, we lean on our friends, find some fun hobbies, and try to meet people from outside our class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment. I wish we were in a classroom (I teach sometimes!) so we could have a whole discussion about this, but I&#8217;ll try my best to answer your question.</p>
<p>Why do students treat each other in such a terrible manner? The short answer, I think, is that high school is a really messed up social atmosphere. The students don&#8217;t really have control over their environment, and so create a status system where at least some get to feel powerful. Being mean to some students can actually help some other students to maintain their popularity, and to avoid getting shut out socially themselves. The jocks and preps don&#8217;t even necessarily hate the people they pick on, either. It&#8217;s like they&#8217;re playing their own game with each other, with the other students as props, trying to avoid losing status. </p>
<p>I think there was a lot going on at Columbine, not just revenge against the &#8220;cool kids&#8221;—but I also know that those guys acted out a fantasy that was shared by victims of peer harassment around the country. In the long run,  though, I think the way victims develop a hatred for jocks isn&#8217;t really helping us. It&#8217;s bad enough that &#8220;the cool kids&#8221; use other students like props in some big game, but what does it do to us if we do the same, or worse? I&#8217;ve seen people who&#8217;ve become so bitter about the way they&#8217;ve been treated that they don&#8217;t trust men at all, and that they treat women like props or prizes themselves. (Notice that in the examples from the blog post above, a lot of times that geeks lash out at jocks, it&#8217;s actually the jocks&#8217; girlfriends who end up getting described as beaten, killed, or won like trophies.) After a while, carrying around all that resentment can give us a messed up sense of what other people are like, and can sometimes make it hard to interact with anybody at all.</p>
<p>I hope I can reassure you a little bit, at least, that things do get better afterward, and that the people who are being so hateful to you now are just people too. College and workplaces just aren&#8217;t like high school, and even the people who used to pick on me turned out to be decent folks when they finally got out into the world. One former jock who used to push my friends around and call us &#8220;faggots,&#8221; for instance, stopped me years later on my college campus just to check in, say hello, and compliment me on the comic I drew the for the school paper. (It was kind of nutty, but nice.) I&#8217;m glad he had a chance to turn out to be a pretty decent guy after all. </p>
<p>Not every former jock turned out to be a nice guy, of course, but by the time we get out of school, it doesn&#8217;t matter anymore. In the meantime, we lean on our friends, find some fun hobbies, and try to meet people from outside our class.</p>
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		<title>By: anominous (spelling?)</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-2027</link>
		<dc:creator>anominous (spelling?)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-2027</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m not a geek, im a metalhead (pretty much a branch off an Emo for a jock), but I hate jocks. They make me so angry, you people have no idea. My mental heath is at stake because of these losers. I&#039;m sick of it. I have enough problems as it is. The world would be a MUCH better place without them. But they wont go away no matter what happens. And  the &#039;Prepps&quot; are definetly a problem as well. They ridicule people just as much as jocks do. 
Why? why do they have to treat people in such a terrible manner. It makes enemys toward them. Bullying is what caused the colombine shooting to happen. I dont understand why they have to be so inconsiderate. It makes me angry. Thats why I hate jocks and prepps, becdause they hate me. I&#039;m just returning the favor. 

HATE JOCKS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not a geek, im a metalhead (pretty much a branch off an Emo for a jock), but I hate jocks. They make me so angry, you people have no idea. My mental heath is at stake because of these losers. I&#8217;m sick of it. I have enough problems as it is. The world would be a MUCH better place without them. But they wont go away no matter what happens. And  the &#8216;Prepps&#8221; are definetly a problem as well. They ridicule people just as much as jocks do.<br />
Why? why do they have to treat people in such a terrible manner. It makes enemys toward them. Bullying is what caused the colombine shooting to happen. I dont understand why they have to be so inconsiderate. It makes me angry. Thats why I hate jocks and prepps, becdause they hate me. I&#8217;m just returning the favor. </p>
<p>HATE JOCKS!</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-1941</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-1941</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, icarus. I hadn&#039;t thought before about how home schoolers might develop these notions, but it&#039;s interesting to read your thoughts on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, icarus. I hadn&#8217;t thought before about how home schoolers might develop these notions, but it&#8217;s interesting to read your thoughts on it.</p>
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		<title>By: icarus</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-1939</link>
		<dc:creator>icarus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-1939</guid>
		<description>I may be completely atypical, but when I think of &quot;jock-hate,&quot; the first reason that comes to mind is a lack of respect for their intelligence. Entry into geek culture is gained, if I may say so, through enjoyment of the cerebral aspects of life, be it games, math, science, language, etc. So when we come up to someone that puts in our face that not only did they choose to embrace the physical aspects, but are &quot;living the life&quot; because of it, it could cause resentment. Throw in a heaping handful of torment, and voila, hatred is born.

In my case, the dislike of jocks is based entirely on stereotypes. Yes, i know that they are often wildly inaccurate, but when you&#039;re a timid home schooler, all you really know about high school culture is what everybody knows. Geeks are smart, jocks are dumb, jocks are bullies, geeks hate jocks. And while cheerleaders are basically female jocks with less brains, they are hot, and thus okay to want. 

Looking back, it saddens me how much of that I hold with. Even what I disagree with is because of another stereotype. Drat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be completely atypical, but when I think of &#8220;jock-hate,&#8221; the first reason that comes to mind is a lack of respect for their intelligence. Entry into geek culture is gained, if I may say so, through enjoyment of the cerebral aspects of life, be it games, math, science, language, etc. So when we come up to someone that puts in our face that not only did they choose to embrace the physical aspects, but are &#8220;living the life&#8221; because of it, it could cause resentment. Throw in a heaping handful of torment, and voila, hatred is born.</p>
<p>In my case, the dislike of jocks is based entirely on stereotypes. Yes, i know that they are often wildly inaccurate, but when you&#8217;re a timid home schooler, all you really know about high school culture is what everybody knows. Geeks are smart, jocks are dumb, jocks are bullies, geeks hate jocks. And while cheerleaders are basically female jocks with less brains, they are hot, and thus okay to want. </p>
<p>Looking back, it saddens me how much of that I hold with. Even what I disagree with is because of another stereotype. Drat.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrss</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-1721</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-1721</guid>
		<description>Geeks typically have poor social skills all around.  I feel that a good deal of their sexism comes from the fact that many of them end up in a state of arrested development - A lot of Geeks don&#039;t have relationships - they have fantasies - and they&#039;re emotionally immature enough to believe that somehow this perfect dream girl will one day appear and fall for them.  Meanwhile, they express contempt for the real women whose existence challenges this idiotic delusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geeks typically have poor social skills all around.  I feel that a good deal of their sexism comes from the fact that many of them end up in a state of arrested development &#8211; A lot of Geeks don&#8217;t have relationships &#8211; they have fantasies &#8211; and they&#8217;re emotionally immature enough to believe that somehow this perfect dream girl will one day appear and fall for them.  Meanwhile, they express contempt for the real women whose existence challenges this idiotic delusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/07/geeks-vs-jocks/comment-page-1#comment-1681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=295#comment-1681</guid>
		<description>Normally I would mark crass comments as spam, but this one seems to be a genuine attempt to assert that being a geek is not mutually exclusive with sexual activity, and I&#039;m not in the business of censoring commenters (who aren&#039;t secretly advertisers). That said, please keep your comments respectful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Normally I would mark crass comments as spam, but this one seems to be a genuine attempt to assert that being a geek is not mutually exclusive with sexual activity, and I&#8217;m not in the business of censoring commenters (who aren&#8217;t secretly advertisers). That said, please keep your comments respectful.</p>
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