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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;You are dead. Continue?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue</link>
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		<title>By: Geek Studies &#187; Heavy Expectations</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies &#187; Heavy Expectations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>[...] a gaming experience in which the consequences of failure fit neatly into the narrative, such as death being a permanent and meaningful alternative to the die-and-retry approach of most [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a gaming experience in which the consequences of failure fit neatly into the narrative, such as death being a permanent and meaningful alternative to the die-and-retry approach of most [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Geek Studies &#187; Where&#8217;d My Key Go? (And Other Game Design Annoyances)</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-2020</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies &#187; Where&#8217;d My Key Go? (And Other Game Design Annoyances)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-2020</guid>
		<description>[...] have an easy answer, though, and not everyone is buying the kind of answers that have been offered to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have an easy answer, though, and not everyone is buying the kind of answers that have been offered to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Geek Studies &#187; What Heavy Rain Might Tell Us About Choice</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1991</link>
		<dc:creator>Geek Studies &#187; What Heavy Rain Might Tell Us About Choice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1991</guid>
		<description>[...] they stay dead, so as to tell a more seamless and less frustrating story—a mechanic discussed elsewhere on this blog and in one of my articles. I&#8217;ve been fascinated to see that some gamers reacted [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they stay dead, so as to tell a more seamless and less frustrating story—a mechanic discussed elsewhere on this blog and in one of my articles. I&#8217;ve been fascinated to see that some gamers reacted [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll have to check out Planescape: Torment; I haven&#039;t played it and hadn&#039;t heard mention of the death system before, but it sounds pretty interesting. 

As long as I&#039;m commenting, I might as well also mention that the new &lt;i&gt;Prince of Persia&lt;/i&gt; game did away with dying entirely. Your character is accompanied by a helper who rescues you from falling to your death, and being defeated by a enemy means getting revived instantly to fight a slightly healed enemy. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=324101&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eurogamer&lt;/a&gt; explains how this works, and notes, &quot;For some the absence of death will be a step too far, but we agree with Ubisoft&#039;s designers; having to try again is punishment enough, and the lighter the punishment the better.&quot;)

And, while I&#039;m yammering, I might as well note that I kind of like the death system in &lt;i&gt;Left 4 Dead&lt;/i&gt;, in which you can die, but your friends can bring you back later by finding your character locked in a closet up ahead. Kind of makes no sense from a narrative perspective, but, like zombie movies themselves, that game feels is more focused on individual scenes and well-trod cliches than on an overarching plot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to check out Planescape: Torment; I haven&#8217;t played it and hadn&#8217;t heard mention of the death system before, but it sounds pretty interesting. </p>
<p>As long as I&#8217;m commenting, I might as well also mention that the new <i>Prince of Persia</i> game did away with dying entirely. Your character is accompanied by a helper who rescues you from falling to your death, and being defeated by a enemy means getting revived instantly to fight a slightly healed enemy. (<a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=324101" rel="nofollow">Eurogamer</a> explains how this works, and notes, &#8220;For some the absence of death will be a step too far, but we agree with Ubisoft&#8217;s designers; having to try again is punishment enough, and the lighter the punishment the better.&#8221;)</p>
<p>And, while I&#8217;m yammering, I might as well note that I kind of like the death system in <i>Left 4 Dead</i>, in which you can die, but your friends can bring you back later by finding your character locked in a closet up ahead. Kind of makes no sense from a narrative perspective, but, like zombie movies themselves, that game feels is more focused on individual scenes and well-trod cliches than on an overarching plot.</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1682</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1682</guid>
		<description>I was a little surprised that there was no mention of Planescape: Torment.  It had a death system that was tightly integrated into the narrative, and dying was actually necessary to complete certain segments of the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a little surprised that there was no mention of Planescape: Torment.  It had a death system that was tightly integrated into the narrative, and dying was actually necessary to complete certain segments of the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>Drat, I&#039;m really sorry about that. It&#039;s not customary to give spoiler alerts in journal articles, but it&#039;s definitely expected when linking to something with a major spoiler. I&#039;ll put a note in the post just in case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drat, I&#8217;m really sorry about that. It&#8217;s not customary to give spoiler alerts in journal articles, but it&#8217;s definitely expected when linking to something with a major spoiler. I&#8217;ll put a note in the post just in case&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SenatorPalpatine</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>SenatorPalpatine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>I read the article and was very interested.  It vaguely reminded me of this idea: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/18/rps-demands-i-want-to-live-forever/

I was very disappointed to have part of Shadow of the Colossus spoiled for me though, I&#039;ve been playing it and am on the 11th colossus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the article and was very interested.  It vaguely reminded me of this idea: <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/18/rps-demands-i-want-to-live-forever/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/18/rps-demands-i-want-to-live-forever/</a></p>
<p>I was very disappointed to have part of Shadow of the Colossus spoiled for me though, I&#8217;ve been playing it and am on the 11th colossus.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>looking forward for more information about this. thanks for sharing. Eugene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looking forward for more information about this. thanks for sharing. Eugene</p>
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		<title>By: Church</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>Hrm. Your Splinter Cell example reminded me of the Interactive Text games. You&#039;d finish with a final score (399 out of 450, or somesuch) and would have some incentive to do it again, only better. OTOH, those games tend to be brutal in the &#039;death&#039; consequence. (And in everything else, if it was written by Doug Adams.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrm. Your Splinter Cell example reminded me of the Interactive Text games. You&#8217;d finish with a final score (399 out of 450, or somesuch) and would have some incentive to do it again, only better. OTOH, those games tend to be brutal in the &#8216;death&#8217; consequence. (And in everything else, if it was written by Doug Adams.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2008/10/you-are-dead-continue/comment-page-1#comment-1643</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=312#comment-1643</guid>
		<description>Looks like Eludamos is back up within the last couple hours.

Church:
There was some discussion in the paper about trial-and-error scenarios that skirt the issue of death (e.g., rewinding the clock as the Prince of Persia). I think of these scenarios as something of a recognition that death presents a narrative problem we&#039;re still trying to figure out how to solve. What fascinates me most, though, are scenarios where failure != death, or where death != backtracking. I don&#039;t expect to see death disappearing from most games, but for the small but growing number of narratively-focused games, I do think we&#039;ll see more alternatives to trial-and-error. 

One example I discuss in the paper is how failing in your objectives in &lt;i&gt;Splinter Cell: Double Agent&lt;/i&gt; might mean letting innocent people die by your hand. The &quot;punishment&quot; isn&#039;t in having to redo the level again, but in living with the consequences of your failure. This wouldn&#039;t work in a game like &lt;i&gt;God of War&lt;/i&gt;, where you really don&#039;t give a damn about the other characters and you just want to kill as much as possible, but it might work in games that focus more on storytelling. (And yes, you can still die in &lt;i&gt;Double Agent&lt;/i&gt;. I offer this more as an example that got &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; right, despite being frustratingly repetitive in other areas.)

Z.:
Yeah. And from a marketing perspective, this is, after all, why the makers of &lt;i&gt;Bioshock&lt;/i&gt; made sure to market their game &lt;i&gt;as a shooter&lt;/i&gt; above all else.

As an addendum to this, I find the resistance to the idea that games could have more depth kind of a fascinating parallel to how some comics fans (especially in the late ’90s) resisted the rise of the &quot;graphic novel&quot; and &quot;alternatives.&quot; The funny thing is, I think the &quot;alternasnobs&quot; and the &quot;fanboys&quot; both got what they wanted in the end, at least to some extent: Comics are now getting reviewed much more commonly in mainstream publications and sold in mainstream bookstores, but the structure of the industry and catering to superhero fans is still in place. &quot;Change&quot; doesn&#039;t have to mean the complete unraveling of everything that came before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Eludamos is back up within the last couple hours.</p>
<p>Church:<br />
There was some discussion in the paper about trial-and-error scenarios that skirt the issue of death (e.g., rewinding the clock as the Prince of Persia). I think of these scenarios as something of a recognition that death presents a narrative problem we&#8217;re still trying to figure out how to solve. What fascinates me most, though, are scenarios where failure != death, or where death != backtracking. I don&#8217;t expect to see death disappearing from most games, but for the small but growing number of narratively-focused games, I do think we&#8217;ll see more alternatives to trial-and-error. </p>
<p>One example I discuss in the paper is how failing in your objectives in <i>Splinter Cell: Double Agent</i> might mean letting innocent people die by your hand. The &#8220;punishment&#8221; isn&#8217;t in having to redo the level again, but in living with the consequences of your failure. This wouldn&#8217;t work in a game like <i>God of War</i>, where you really don&#8217;t give a damn about the other characters and you just want to kill as much as possible, but it might work in games that focus more on storytelling. (And yes, you can still die in <i>Double Agent</i>. I offer this more as an example that got <i>something</i> right, despite being frustratingly repetitive in other areas.)</p>
<p>Z.:<br />
Yeah. And from a marketing perspective, this is, after all, why the makers of <i>Bioshock</i> made sure to market their game <i>as a shooter</i> above all else.</p>
<p>As an addendum to this, I find the resistance to the idea that games could have more depth kind of a fascinating parallel to how some comics fans (especially in the late ’90s) resisted the rise of the &#8220;graphic novel&#8221; and &#8220;alternatives.&#8221; The funny thing is, I think the &#8220;alternasnobs&#8221; and the &#8220;fanboys&#8221; both got what they wanted in the end, at least to some extent: Comics are now getting reviewed much more commonly in mainstream publications and sold in mainstream bookstores, but the structure of the industry and catering to superhero fans is still in place. &#8220;Change&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have to mean the complete unraveling of everything that came before.</p>
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