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	<title>Comments on: Point-Blank Games Criticism</title>
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		<title>By: Jason Tocci</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/04/point-blank-games-criticism/comment-page-1#comment-1952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Tocci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=362#comment-1952</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What is your definition of more sophisticated?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Good question. For a rough definition, I would say that a sophisticated story is one that is subtly and purposefully meaningful and thought-provoking when taken as a whole. 

Plenty of games have stories. Plenty of games offer thought-provoking scenes. Very few games, if any, could be said to be subtly and purposefully meaningful and thought-provoking throughout. &lt;i&gt;Bioshock&lt;/i&gt;, for instance, explores some interesting themes about the moral and practical implications of Objectivist philosophy, and offers a plot twist that forces us to question how certain philosophies and assumptions pervade the underlying mechanics of nearly every action-oriented game we play, often in questionable or problematic ways. It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; sophisticated than other shooters, but, taken as a whole, it&#039;s still nowhere near as subtle and thought-provoking as what we see in other media. This isn&#039;t because &lt;i&gt;Bioshock&lt;/i&gt; is a video game, and games can&#039;t be sophisticated, but because market pressures led the developers to conclude (perhaps quite rightly) that this game would only make money if it was a shooter first and a cultural commentary second. As I&#039;ve argued &lt;a href=\http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/10/the-bioshock-post\ rel=\nofollow\ rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;elsewhere&lt;/a&gt;, however, I believe &lt;i&gt;Bioshock&lt;/i&gt; would have been a much more sophisticated story—the kind I&#039;d point to as evidence that games are as artistically relevant as any other storytelling medium—if the splicers weren&#039;t just targets to shoot every time you see them, and if the &lt;i&gt;gameplay&lt;/i&gt; in the second half of the game had changed radically to follow through with the implications of its big plot twist. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Also, some stories tend to lend themselves to better mediums.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I totally agree, but we might disagree over what this should imply. As I&#039;ve discussed in some earlier posts, I think that the best stories are those that take advantage of what their particular medium has to offer. Games like &lt;i&gt;Shadow of the Colossus&lt;/i&gt; (which I can&#039;t shut up about around here) work &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; they offer purposefully limited interactivity, not in spite of this. And, of course, this goes the other way; &lt;i&gt;Hamlet&lt;/i&gt; (especially with its whole &quot;play within a play&quot; thing) loses a lot when you make it &lt;i&gt;not a play&lt;/i&gt; anymore. I&#039;d similarly argue that &lt;i&gt;Watchmen&lt;/i&gt; lost a lot when it was shoehorned into a movie. You have to play to a medium&#039;s strengths.

I say we might disagree over what this should imply, though, because I often see people saying that stories work differently in different media as an explanation for why games have been so narrow in the content they&#039;ve addressed. The narrowness of content in video games is not a formal or technological issue; it is a cultural and industrial issue. Once upon a time, people argued that comics were &lt;i&gt;inherently&lt;/i&gt; only suited to producing childish content because cartoons are less serious and meaningful than other visual arts; and I think that&#039;s been pretty roundly disproved to critics and markets alike. &lt;i&gt;Hamlet&lt;/i&gt; might make a lousy game, but that doesn&#039;t mean we &lt;i&gt;couldn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; ever have a game that explores existential crises and madness without a fight scene every 30 seconds.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I would rather have a fun and compelling game, then have some sort of “Sophisticated” story trying to be a game.&lt;/blockquote&gt;That&#039;s fair as a personal preference, but I don&#039;t see why this has to be an either/or situation. I&#039;d rather have access to &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt;, and as I argue in the above post, making more sophisticated games doesn&#039;t mean that the stuff made for pure entertainment has to take a hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What is your definition of more sophisticated?</p></blockquote>
<p>Good question. For a rough definition, I would say that a sophisticated story is one that is subtly and purposefully meaningful and thought-provoking when taken as a whole. </p>
<p>Plenty of games have stories. Plenty of games offer thought-provoking scenes. Very few games, if any, could be said to be subtly and purposefully meaningful and thought-provoking throughout. <i>Bioshock</i>, for instance, explores some interesting themes about the moral and practical implications of Objectivist philosophy, and offers a plot twist that forces us to question how certain philosophies and assumptions pervade the underlying mechanics of nearly every action-oriented game we play, often in questionable or problematic ways. It&#8217;s <i>more</i> sophisticated than other shooters, but, taken as a whole, it&#8217;s still nowhere near as subtle and thought-provoking as what we see in other media. This isn&#8217;t because <i>Bioshock</i> is a video game, and games can&#8217;t be sophisticated, but because market pressures led the developers to conclude (perhaps quite rightly) that this game would only make money if it was a shooter first and a cultural commentary second. As I&#8217;ve argued <a href=\http://www.geekstudies.org/2007/10/the-bioshock-post\ rel=\nofollow\ rel="nofollow">elsewhere</a>, however, I believe <i>Bioshock</i> would have been a much more sophisticated story—the kind I&#8217;d point to as evidence that games are as artistically relevant as any other storytelling medium—if the splicers weren&#8217;t just targets to shoot every time you see them, and if the <i>gameplay</i> in the second half of the game had changed radically to follow through with the implications of its big plot twist. </p>
<blockquote><p>Also, some stories tend to lend themselves to better mediums.</p></blockquote>
<p>I totally agree, but we might disagree over what this should imply. As I&#8217;ve discussed in some earlier posts, I think that the best stories are those that take advantage of what their particular medium has to offer. Games like <i>Shadow of the Colossus</i> (which I can&#8217;t shut up about around here) work <i>because</i> they offer purposefully limited interactivity, not in spite of this. And, of course, this goes the other way; <i>Hamlet</i> (especially with its whole &#8220;play within a play&#8221; thing) loses a lot when you make it <i>not a play</i> anymore. I&#8217;d similarly argue that <i>Watchmen</i> lost a lot when it was shoehorned into a movie. You have to play to a medium&#8217;s strengths.</p>
<p>I say we might disagree over what this should imply, though, because I often see people saying that stories work differently in different media as an explanation for why games have been so narrow in the content they&#8217;ve addressed. The narrowness of content in video games is not a formal or technological issue; it is a cultural and industrial issue. Once upon a time, people argued that comics were <i>inherently</i> only suited to producing childish content because cartoons are less serious and meaningful than other visual arts; and I think that&#8217;s been pretty roundly disproved to critics and markets alike. <i>Hamlet</i> might make a lousy game, but that doesn&#8217;t mean we <i>couldn&#8217;t</i> ever have a game that explores existential crises and madness without a fight scene every 30 seconds.</p>
<blockquote><p>I would rather have a fun and compelling game, then have some sort of “Sophisticated” story trying to be a game.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s fair as a personal preference, but I don&#8217;t see why this has to be an either/or situation. I&#8217;d rather have access to <i>both</i>, and as I argue in the above post, making more sophisticated games doesn&#8217;t mean that the stuff made for pure entertainment has to take a hit.</p>
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		<title>By: CS</title>
		<link>http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/04/point-blank-games-criticism/comment-page-1#comment-1949</link>
		<dc:creator>CS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=362#comment-1949</guid>
		<description>What is your definition of more sophisticated?

Also, some stories tend to lend themselves to better mediums. 

I don&#039;t think I would want to play through a game of &quot;Pride and Prejudice&quot;, or &quot;Hamlet&quot;. 

I would rather have a fun and compelling game, then have some sort of &quot;Sophisticated&quot; story trying to be a game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is your definition of more sophisticated?</p>
<p>Also, some stories tend to lend themselves to better mediums. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I would want to play through a game of &#8220;Pride and Prejudice&#8221;, or &#8220;Hamlet&#8221;. </p>
<p>I would rather have a fun and compelling game, then have some sort of &#8220;Sophisticated&#8221; story trying to be a game.</p>
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