Comments on: The Failings of “Forced Failure” http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/12/the-failings-of-forced-failure Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:46:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: NIck Bowman http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/12/the-failings-of-forced-failure/comment-page-1#comment-2322 NIck Bowman Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:20:19 +0000 http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=579#comment-2322 We'll have to chat...this might not fit here, but there is a push in Media Psychology to study what happens when we force gamers to commit a moral transgression (morality defined by the end-user). I'll post more specific information, if you're interested. Tilo Hartmann and others published something on the subject - they talked about moral disengagement in shooters - recently in Communication Theory: What makes virtual violence enjoyable rather than aversive? Two 2×2 experiments tested the assumption that moral disengagement cues provided by a violent video game's narrative and game play lessen users' guilt and negative affect, which would otherwise undermine players' enjoyment of the game. Experiment 1 found that users' familiarity with the violent game reduced guilt and negative affect, and enhanced enjoyment, whereas opponents' nonhuman outer appearance and blameworthiness had no effect. Experiment 2 found that fighting for a just purpose, perceiving less mayhem, and framing the overall situation as "just a game" or "just an experiment" reduced guilt and negative affect, whereas the distorted portrayal of consequences did not. Effects on game enjoyment were mixed and suggest that moral disengagement cues may both foster and diminish game enjoyment. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123303810/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 We’ll have to chat…this might not fit here, but there is a push in Media Psychology to study what happens when we force gamers to commit a moral transgression (morality defined by the end-user). I’ll post more specific information, if you’re interested.

Tilo Hartmann and others published something on the subject – they talked about moral disengagement in shooters – recently in Communication Theory: What makes virtual violence enjoyable rather than aversive? Two 2×2 experiments tested the assumption that moral disengagement cues provided by a violent video game’s narrative and game play lessen users’ guilt and negative affect, which would otherwise undermine players’ enjoyment of the game. Experiment 1 found that users’ familiarity with the violent game reduced guilt and negative affect, and enhanced enjoyment, whereas opponents’ nonhuman outer appearance and blameworthiness had no effect. Experiment 2 found that fighting for a just purpose, perceiving less mayhem, and framing the overall situation as “just a game” or “just an experiment” reduced guilt and negative affect, whereas the distorted portrayal of consequences did not. Effects on game enjoyment were mixed and suggest that moral disengagement cues may both foster and diminish game enjoyment.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123303810/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

]]> By: Jason Tocci http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/12/the-failings-of-forced-failure/comment-page-1#comment-2295 Jason Tocci Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:10:04 +0000 http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=579#comment-2295 This is a good point and a useful distinction I failed to make. I would say that "forced unpleasantness" is potentially useful as one kind of "forced failure," though. In games like <i>Mass Effect 2</i> (which I'll be blogging about for a little while here yet, I suspect), your choices sometimes have immediately observable and potentially unpleasant consequences, which I find to be a more narratively coherent way of judging or punishing the player. As for forced failure/unpleasantness as a means of "nerfing" the character: If I recall correctly, you're mentioning this as an example you disliked from <i>Metal Gear Solid 2</i>. I hear they do the same thing in <i>Dark Void</i>, the new "jetpack game" in which they take away your jetpack part way through, and you have to get it back. I suspect it's as much just to create a sense of variety as it is to make something more challenging, but I agree that it doesn't necessarily always work. I thought one of the <i>Splinter Cell</i> games did an all right job of this, making it so that if you set off an alarm, you were captured and cuffed, and then you had to escape and get your gear back. In a way, you were "penalized" for screwing up ... but penalized by getting to play more of the game! This is a good point and a useful distinction I failed to make. I would say that “forced unpleasantness” is potentially useful as one kind of “forced failure,” though. In games like Mass Effect 2 (which I’ll be blogging about for a little while here yet, I suspect), your choices sometimes have immediately observable and potentially unpleasant consequences, which I find to be a more narratively coherent way of judging or punishing the player.

As for forced failure/unpleasantness as a means of “nerfing” the character: If I recall correctly, you’re mentioning this as an example you disliked from Metal Gear Solid 2. I hear they do the same thing in Dark Void, the new “jetpack game” in which they take away your jetpack part way through, and you have to get it back. I suspect it’s as much just to create a sense of variety as it is to make something more challenging, but I agree that it doesn’t necessarily always work. I thought one of the Splinter Cell games did an all right job of this, making it so that if you set off an alarm, you were captured and cuffed, and then you had to escape and get your gear back. In a way, you were “penalized” for screwing up … but penalized by getting to play more of the game!

]]> By: Jordan http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/12/the-failings-of-forced-failure/comment-page-1#comment-2275 Jordan Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:50:12 +0000 http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=579#comment-2275 I'd rather see forced failure used to make changes in the direction of a plot than see it used to force my character to run around naked or otherwise nerfed just to make a particular level design challenging. I mean, if you can't use forced failure to change the plot, why don't more people complain about "forced success"? --Jordan I’d rather see forced failure used to make changes in the direction of a plot than see it used to force my character to run around naked or otherwise nerfed just to make a particular level design challenging.

I mean, if you can’t use forced failure to change the plot, why don’t more people complain about “forced success”?

–Jordan

]]> By: Jordan http://www.geekstudies.org/2009/12/the-failings-of-forced-failure/comment-page-1#comment-2274 Jordan Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:43:57 +0000 http://www.geekstudies.org/?p=579#comment-2274 I watched the No Russian clip... It felt like a mix of "forced failure" and what you called "forced unpleasant violence"... which i guess i see as different things. Maybe not wholly different, but worth distinguishing. It ended in forced failure, but was mostly unpleasant violence. Both of these bother me, but I think for different reasons that I can't suss out. I watched the No Russian clip…

It felt like a mix of “forced failure” and what you called “forced unpleasant violence”… which i guess i see as different things. Maybe not wholly different, but worth distinguishing. It ended in forced failure, but was mostly unpleasant violence.

Both of these bother me, but I think for different reasons that I can’t suss out.

]]>